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Erin Hennessy
Hello and welcome to the Trusted Voices Podcast. I’m Erin Hennessy, alongside Teresa Valerio Parrot, and in each episode, we’ll discuss the latest news and biggest issues facing higher ed leaders through a communications lens. For these conversations, we’ll be joined by a guest who will share their own experiences and perspectives.
Hi, there.
Teresa Parrot
Hi.
Erin Hennessy
Hi.
Teresa Parrot
Happy day after inauguration.
Erin Hennessy
And to you.
Teresa Parrot
That was a heck of a news day, huh?
Erin Hennessy
I will tell you that I was very smart, and I went to the beach, and I…
Teresa Parrot
Saw the ocean.
Erin Hennessy
I saw the ocean, and read a lot, and slept a lot and did not engage with the news a lot.
Teresa Parrot
I watched a football game, so congratulations to the Ohio State University. I can say that every team that I picked lost to the Ohio State University. So congratulations to them.
Erin Hennessy
Consistency.
Teresa Parrot
Yes.
Erin Hennessy
I’ll also note, just because our unseen but all-powerful producer, DJ Hauschild, would require me to note that the Eagles won a football game, and so will be facing the Washington Commanders in a championship of some sort, which I believe will eventually lead to the Super Bowl.
Teresa Parrot
Eventually. Not yet, but you’re getting there.
Erin Hennessy
Mercy. And then we could roll into baseball, and it’s just gonna be great.
Teresa Parrot
I’m not a baseball person, so…
Erin Hennessy
Nor am I, nor am I. Except for as it pertains to my nephew. And there I have no choice, but anyway.
Teresa Parrot
I’m a news person, so let’s talk about the news.
Erin Hennessy
All right, Should I go first? Since I have the more downbeat stuff?
Teresa Parrot
Uh, yeah, let’s do it.
Erin Hennessy
Okay. So two things, obviously, as you noted, we’re recording the day after presidential inauguration, and President Trump marked his first day by issuing an extraordinarily lengthy list of executive order rescissions that included rescission of executive orders that impact tribal colleges, HSIs, HBCUs and predominantly black institutions.
Teresa Parrot
And I would say those institutions, and also students across all institutions.
Erin Hennessy
Yes, because he also took some action on issues related to gender. He also took some actions on citizenship, which may or may not hold up. Who knows, but all to say that while I think people were braced for the worst, which would have been a travel ban right out of the gate, we certainly did see a lot of activity. If there’s a silver lining, at least on some of these around HSIs, HBCUs, some of them are really impacting organizations, advisory councils at the federal level aren’t at this point attaching to funding or anything like that. But it certainly is not great news for higher ed, not great news for the institutions, and as you point out, not great news for students. So that is out there. We are here in day two, and we’ll see what happens today. But this is just a very disconcertingly familiar feeling of bracing to see, to see what’s going to happen, and not really having an ability to predict it,
Teresa Parrot
Well and I will give a prediction. And we started to see some of this prediction come true yesterday, and I think we’ll see more of it. And that is, we will start to see lawsuits based on some of these executive orders. So we’ll see more lawsuits. And my second prediction is, the first was setting up some of these executive orders and rescissions, rescindings? Whatever.
Erin Hennessy
Recission. Uh huh. Uh huh.
Teresa Parrot
Things were rescinded. And I think from there, we will start to see to your point the budget implications that come next. So the dollars will come as a follow-up. So that’s where we’re going to go, and that’s what we need to prepare ourselves for. So we haven’t yet seen the budget implications, but just you wait. And so we’ll also then start to see the bills associated with what comes next. So that will be Congress’ next steps that I’m sure they’re being asked to take right now. So what we need to be then thinking about, and we’ve talked about this on a couple of episodes, is what is the federal and the state overlap between these as well, because some of these obviously will be set in motion at the federal level, but they’ll need the state participation. We’ll see these from governors and we’ll see these from legislatures as well. So this is step one of many, many steps, and now we need to see what happens next for our institutions. And then the companion to this is, are there leadership steps that we’ll also need to see our presidents and our boards take to counteract some of this, if there is the potential for counteracting, and will our presidents and boards take those steps as well. I’m not sure if there are, and I’m not sure if they will, but that really is a question that I’m hoping their policy directors, their legal counsel and their cabinets are looking into at this very moment.
Erin Hennessy
Sure, we’re also still waiting to see who’s going to oversee higher education at the Department of Education for as long as it shall persist. So that will also add another layer, once that person is named and nominated and goes through the confirmation process. I think one of the other things that has held my attention over the last couple of weeks is looking at the language that is being used by association executives, thinktank folks, policymakers, outside of you know elected and appointed federal office, just to see how language varies, and to see the public position about being willing to work with an administration where there are areas of agreement, and as we start to see the reality unfold, how that language might need to shift, should need to shift, to position those organizations – fight might be too strong a word – but to really engage and push back on the administration. We know that so much of that negotiation happens privately and quietly in meetings and offices around Washington, DC and around the country, but I think there are going to be some instances, this will be my prediction, some instances in the coming weeks and months and years where we’re going to need higher education associations and relevant organizations to really stand up and take a more robust position than a strongly worded letter that is sent to the hill and to the administration and I am not…
Teresa Parrot
Or just a statement posted on a website.
Erin Hennessy
Yes. And some of the conversations that I’m sure are happening privately, where these association leaders are being very frank, need to perhaps become a little less private, because I do think there are, I’m not suggesting we fight just to fight, I am suggesting that I hope there is a list being drawn up somewhere of these are the places where we will not stand back and look for common ground. These are places where we will continue to push forward for the benefit of institutions and the people that work for them and learn at them and the communities that surround them.
Teresa Parrot
And that actually is the perfect segue to one of my clips, and that was a piece that was in the Chronicle at the end of last week. It was “Is Leading a Red-State Flagship More Trouble Than It’s Worth?” And this was a piece that was written by David Jesse, and there was a part in there where he talks about the fact that he reached out to eight public university presidents, and all eight declined to comment. And that’s the part of it I wanted to raise. And I think it is the corollary to what you’re talking about, that there is going to be a part where the associations are going to have their similar moment where they are going to not just say, I’m declining to comment on this, but they are going to have a similar moment where they need to step forward and they need to say something publicly, not just in meetings around conference tables where they say and we really need to take a stand collectively, we need to say something. They may need to be the one who says something, not just share that comment around a table. And to your point, what are the issues? What is the threshold? And who is going to say something that needs to be something that they’re discussing, I hope now so that when the moment comes, they have a playbook, and they have the moment, and they have the trigger, and they have each other queued up, ready to go, and they have each other’s backs, yeah, because that’s what’s going to have to happen. I worry for some of these major issues, and they’re going to have to do that so that they can be the defense on behalf of the presidents who may or may not be able to say something, because that’s what these institutions are paying their dues for.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, absolutely. May we all have the courage of our convictions, and live them over the next four years.
Teresa Parrot
Yeah, I can say that because I’m volunteering somebody else, right?
Erin Hennessy
Oh yeah. I mean, you and I’ll mouth off about anything but who listens to us, other than the fine people who are listening to us right now. But, you know, I think you and I approach the work that we do with presidents in a very thoughtful and strategic way. And again, we don’t want anybody to light themselves on fire just to keep us warm. What we encourage folks to do is to be thoughtful and strategic. But sometimes you do need to make yourself vulnerable for the good of your institution, but also for the good of the industry and the sector. And I just hope that conversation is happening, and if it is, if somebody wants to shoot us a note and let us know, we’ll buy the coffee and we’ll come cheer you on.
Teresa Parrot
We will amplify your message, we will make sure that we are giving you a pep talk before and we are there to help you after. We’re here. This is what we are. This is what we are waiting for. We are here to support. We are here to cheer you on in all of the things. And there’s a real reason why, so this is going to be my second clip. The Edelman Trust Barometer just came out.
Erin Hennessy
My favorite.
Teresa Parrot
Yes, you and I both love to go through this, and this is something that is important to note. Trust, as always, continues to go down and optimist here, there are some nuggets to this that I think they’re important. The most trusted sectors remain trusted. The second most trusted sector is education. So as we talk about why there are certain people and why there are certain entities that need to step up and push back, it’s because they’re trusted. Not only is it the right thing to do, not only do they have voices, but also it’s because they’re trusted. So education is trusted, as we think about who are trusted, scientists and teachers are at the top of that list, followed by my CEO. So scientists, teachers and my CEO are at the top of that list. We’re getting to the people who have the voice, the gravitas, the social and political capital to carry these messages. Let’s have the people who have trust and are in the industries to lead the trust do exactly that. So when people feel uncomfortable and uneasy with being the trusted voices…
Erin Hennessy
Oh nice.
Teresa Parrot
…let’s make sure that they know they have the ability to lead people forward, because people want those specific voices to lead them. And the Trust Barometer this year actually says people are wanting and craving for those that they trust to step up and to fill those spaces.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, yes, there’s so much good stuff in there.
Teresa Parrot
It’s so good this year.
Erin Hennessy
I’m really glad you pointed out that it had been released because that takes care of my class for this week, we spend a lot of time digging through that. I was really fascinated by how high the trust numbers are in business. I just really didn’t expect to see that. I expected more of an attitude of, you know, these, these fat cat CEOs making all this money exponentially more than the lowest paid person in their corporation. And the one slide, and I don’t have it pulled up in front of me, but that says I trust my CEO to make the right decisions. And I went, ooh.
Teresa Parrot
I know, right?
Erin Hennessy
Okay, that surprised me to pieces. There’s also for folks who are maybe looking to understand a bit more about the moment that we are in, there’s a lot of very interesting data in there about grievance that’s sort of the correct focus of the report this year. I highly recommend it. And if you are an overachieving student of mine who is listening to this podcast, just know this is coming at you on Thursday night.
Teresa Parrot
And it’s a very personal take on the Trust Barometer this year. So to the grievance part of this, it’s how people are feeling they have been affected, how they are feeling. So this year’s Trust Barometer, they took a different tact this year. I would highly encourage people to look at it. News does not do well this year. We’ve seen for many, many years, but it really doesn’t do well this year. But that personal aspect to it, it feels different this year, and I think it’s very worthwhile for people to take a peek at it, and also to see that higher education, education as a whole, and especially those who are on our campuses, from scientists to educators, did very well and we need to remember that, especially as we’re feeling low, as we’re feeling many things across our campuses. This is one of those that I think can really buoy who we are and why.
Erin Hennessy
Agreed. Agreed. It’s good stuff. I don’t know how to segue.
Teresa Parrot
I don’t think you can segue.
Erin Hennessy
I can’t build a segue there, so I’m just gonna say that the last thing that’s been on my mind, on all of our minds over the last couple of weeks, has been the impact of wildfires on California, on the Los Angeles area. And we’ll link to a piece that was written for Inside Higher Ed, just really looking across a number of sectors and a number of different kinds of institutions. At the impact of these wildfires on institutions in the LA area. It seems that most of the impact has not been on the physical plant of the institutions, but instead, and perhaps even more sadly, on the homes and lives of people who are working for and learning at our institutions in terms of loss of homes, evacuation orders, and it really is just devastating to see, and it made me think about the impact of Hurricane Helene in western North Carolina, and you and I talked a couple of months ago in the wake of that hurricane, about the need to remember the impacts and that the institutions in that area were going to be grappling with those impacts for a good long time. We linked to, in the show notes as well, press release that talks about continued recovery and funding for recovery in western North Carolina, the fact that some institutions are just now getting back to in class, in-person classes, and the impacts will be similar in Los Angeles as people try and figure out where they’re going to live and get their hands on just basic things like clothing and supplies. And it’s just, it’s a really, really awful story. So I will be closing this on a down note, apparently.
Teresa Parrot
Yeah. this one…yeah, this one’s really, really personal for me on many, many levels. I won’t go into all the stories and the reasons, but this one is very, very personal to me, and I am devastated by what I have seen and heard and I just know that we, to your point, are hearing from institutions that they have survived and the personal tolls that I’m hearing from the faculty and staff is so significant, and the stories that I’m hearing and experiencing with very close friends is devastating. And I know from where I live and what my community has experienced over the last three years that it’s a long haul, and I have, I’m getting choked up but, I have spent many a night the last two weeks, just working through a reality with someone that is significant and it’s hard, and I just want those who have been impacted to know that I’m thinking about you, because it’s a lot, and I send you good thoughts, and if there’s anything I can do to help, please reach out to us. Let us know, whether it’s sending people silly jokes first thing in the morning. So I have someone I’m sending a silly joke to every morning, happy to do so, or whatever that might be, because it’s a lot so people are on my mind.
Erin Hennessy
Yup, and we’ll include a couple of links in the show notes to organizations both in LA and western North Carolina that are continuing to support folks who are impacted there. But it is an important time to remember that institutions are not just these big monoliths and buildings and acceptance rates and athletic teams, they are made up of people, and people experience very real and very hard things, and amazingly enough, keep showing up and coming to work while they are navigating those hard things. So we are sending love and care to the folks in Los Angeles and to the folks in western North Carolina. And right now it’s snowing on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. So we’ll send some love down that way as well.
Teresa Parrot
And snowing in Houston. I can’t believe that we’re even saying that.
Erin Hennessy
Craziness, absolute craziness. But before we get too much further into weather talk, why don’t I go ahead and introduce our guest for this episode. We are delighted to be joined today by Sara Custer, who is editor-in-chief of Inside Higher Ed. She is the first woman to hold that role, which she assumed in March 2024. Previously, she served as editor of Times Higher Ed Campus, a peer resource site for higher education professionals. There, she worked across departments to launch and grow campus and led its editorial team. Prior to that, she also served as Times Higher Ed’s digital editor, launched their newsletter strategy, and oversaw daily, weekly and monthly publications. She was also editor and senior reporter at The PIE News. She despite all those overseas assignments, grew up in Cushing Oklahoma, has a bachelor’s in English literature from Loyola University Chicago, and a Master of International Journalism from City University of London. And we are absolutely thrilled to speak with her today. Sara, welcome to Trusted Voices.
Teresa Parrot
Sara, thank you so much for joining us. It’s been almost a year since you were named editor-in-chief. So first of all, congratulations, and second of all, tell us what this year has been like. How do you even start to prepare to lead a team in a rapidly changing news environment that covers a rapidly changing industry, especially when both of those are facing public critique?
Sara Custer
Yeah, hi. Thanks for having me, I do have to say, so I moved to DC from London, where I was working for Times Higher Education. And I obviously knew I was making this move quite a bit before I actually did the move, and my idea of what this job was going to be and how I was going to approach it is totally different to the reality of it, which I guess is probably how these things go. But it has been a whirlwind, I think, especially coming behind two founders who are so well known in the higher education sector and have made such an incredible impact on it has also added to kind of what my experience is, I think, coming into this so the first year or so, well, it’s been 10 months.
Teresa Parrot
But probably feels like 25 years,
Sara Custer
Sometimes 25 years, and sometimes like 25 minutes. I keep oscillating back and forth between being like, Oh, I got this. And then I have no idea what I’m doing. It’s getting better, though. So it’s been a lot of getting to know people. Relationship building is really important, I’m learning. Thankfully, we’ve got a really strong team in the newsroom. I think it’s probably the best that Inside Higher Ed has had in a very long time in terms of the talent and reporters that we have, the expertise that they’re building up, and our editorial leadership. It’s also kind of coming, getting to grips with kind of how things have been working.
So again, coming behind two founders, you know, Inside Higher Ed was started, I think Doug said on, like, his kitchen table, and it was very much him and Scott for a very long time doing everything. And there’s still some residual mom and pop stuff that exists here because of that, them doing everything, because they had to do everything. So it’s been a lot of, kind of figuring out how things work and why things work that way, and kind of who takes care of what, and I guess just kind of streamlining it, or I guess professionalizing it a little bit kind of getting it up to industry standard. That’s been a lot of fun, and it’s also helped me kind of understand, really get under the hood and understand how Inside Higher Ed works.
It’s also allowed me to make some improvements to the team, to kind of set it on the path that I want to take Inside Higher Ed on in the next chapter that I see it has so we’ve got a news editor now, and that was in internal promotion that we had. Katherine Knott was our federal policy reporter. I was able to promote her to news editor, which is great. We’ve got a Features Editor now. So Bob Moser is going to be leading on our kind of deeper dives, which is a little bit of a departure of what Inside Higher Ed has historically done, which has been straightforward, news, news, news, which we will continue to do, but allowing our reporters to pull back a little bit and fill in some of the gaps that a daily news output leaves, connecting those dots, just thinking a bit more deeply about stuff. And then we’ve got a new managing editor, Susan Greenberg, as well.
So that’s kind of our trio of editorial leaders in the newsroom now, which is really exciting, and it’s been going really well so far, and in terms of, I guess, stepping into a job as a journalist in a very fraught media landscape, but then also a journalist reporting on higher education, which is having its own issues at the moment, I think the best thing that we can do as journalists is just keeping our readers in mind and remembering what we’re here to do, which is to be a critical friend. Yes, critical, but also a friend, and being there, ultimately to help the sector and try to hold things to accountable and ultimately help it be better, and be part of that being better. We try to give as many facts as we possibly can, be as objective as we can, and kind of let that speak for itself.
I will say it’s, it is getting a little bit harder for us, and you guys might be able to speak to this about people just feeling that they can speak a bit more directly to our reporters, especially people in specific states, about specific topics. We’re finding a lot of people have been told to go through their comms department. They won’t speak to our reporters directly. DEI is a big topic where we’re having people we’re having some problems getting people to speak to us. So that’s going to be interesting as we go into the next four years. And I think that Inside Higher Ed was set up for a specific time, for a specific audience. So I’m really interested in seeing how we can think about serving the next cohort of Inside Higher Ed readers and our next audience, and how we can start to serve the next, the future higher education administrators and faculty and members and leaders in higher education. So we continue to be the first thing that people read whenever they wake up.
Erin Hennessy
Right. Sara, you plan on doing any reporting and writing yourself?
Sara Custer
I would love to. I would absolutely love to. I know that’s something that Doug and Scott did really well. I have no idea how they balanced that. Do they have the same 24 hours in a day as the rest of us? I’m not sure. I would love to whenever the opportunity arises. Yep.
Erin Hennessy 25:25
Okay, you mentioned that you came to Inside Higher Ed from London. How you left London? I don’t know, because it’s, I don’t know that’s one of my all-time favorites, but I’d be fascinated to hear your thoughts on when you came back to the states, the conversations that are happening around US higher education, how they differ from the conversations you were covering in the UK? What surprised you? What absolutely knocked you back on your heels in terms of sort of re-grounding yourself in US higher ed.?
Sara Custer
So it’s funny. So I was in London for 13 years, and I found that kind of what happened in the US would kind of trickle its way over to the UK in some way, culturally or politically. And it had, it was kind of the same thing in higher ed. And maybe that’s just like a coincidence, but I think a lot of developed higher education systems are facing the same issues now around the world. Australia certainly, it’s certainly happening with them. Canada, to a certain extent, there’s still there are crises of funding happening, and that’s a real issue for UK higher education. The reasons behind it are different, obviously, because they’re a more centralized, state funded system than they are over here, but during a certain government administration, especially around COVID, there were lots of attacks on experts and on science that we saw in the United States, and I think that’s impacted a lot of the public opinion of higher education and research. We’re seeing a similar, the UK and the US are seeing similar types of issues around the precarity of the higher education workforce and adjunctification of faculty, certainly a thing in the UK as well as over here.
So there are lots of parallels, similar to UK and American culture, it’s like just different enough to be annoying, familiar enough to be different, or some- whatever the phrase is, it’s like, we speak the same language, but it’s totally different. And like, it’s called a it’s called a lift, not an elevator, you know, it’s called the loo, not the toilet. It’s just, it’s all the same things, but it’s just slightly different enough. So I think that one thing that the UK sector probably has over the US is that they are able to speak with a bit more of a unified voice. They’re a smaller sector. They’re centrally funded, so they’re all kind of walking in the same step, a little bit, way more than US institutions, which, as we know it’s an incredibly diverse sector, different types of institutions within their own little cohorts. But even within those cohorts, there’s a lot of variety. At times, it can feel like everyone’s kind of jostling for their own benefit over here in the US, whereas they were much more unified voice.
Teresa Parrot
Can you talk to us a little bit about that, though? Because I’m curious, and we’ve had these conversations, Erin and I have had these conversations, and we’ve heard them across the industry as well, that there could be a benefit if we were to see higher education have a more unified voice?
Sara Custer
Yeah.
Teresa Parrot
Do you think there would be a benefit if we were to see this higher education coming together, to talk about its benefits in ways that we don’t yet see? We see different pockets coming together, but we don’t see a higher education voice. And could that be a benefit over the next four years, particularly if we had a higher education voice?
Sara Custer
Yeah, certainly, I think, especially in conversations with elected officials whenever universities are going to their state legislators and trying to make the case for more funding and why they should get funding over Medicare and Medicaid or prison systems, or any of the other competing priorities for public funding that legislators are trying to balance. I think if you are able to go in with your state ecosystem of community colleges and R1 institutions and small privates and whatever you’ve got, and going in and really showing this is what we are doing for your state. This is the economic impact that we have. This is how we’re working with employers across the state. These are the outcomes that we’re offering all of our students, right across the board. Being able to talk like that and have those conversations, I think, would be hugely beneficial.
Teresa Parrot
Especially with limited resources. There’s only so many coins in the pot.
Sara Custer
Yeah.
Teresa Parrot
If we can talk about what the benefits are, here’s what we could actually be doing with those coins.
Sara Custer
For sure, for sure. Yeah.
Teresa Parrot
Sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but I think there’s something to be teased out there that we’re missing right now.
Sara Custer
And again, I don’t know how possible it is.
Erin Hennessy
Mhm.
Sara Custer
And I don’t know if you can have that conversation with everyone. Certainly to elected officials who you have a shared constituency of state citizens to a certain extent.
Teresa Parrot
Right.
Sara Custer
I think it’s more difficult to do if we’re talking about public trust in higher education.
Teresa Parrot
Right.
Sara Custer
That is totally different. And I think the lots of different kind of competing concepts or understandings of what universities and colleges are in kind of the public perspective. I think you’ve got, you know, you’ve got the ones that are covered by the New York Times and CNN, the Ivy’s, you know, the four or five that are covered there. You’ve got how we were just talking the other day in the newsroom about, Wouldn’t it be funny to look at how colleges are portrayed in like pop culture versus the reality of stuff, and how that influences people’s concept of it. And then you’ve got, you know, your local community college where maybe you work, or your parent worked whenever you were growing up, or the State football team that you love, even though you didn’t go to that university. So there are just lots of different kind of understandings of what higher education is for the average person, I think.
Erin Hennessy
It’s so interesting. You mentioned the parallels between the US and the UK. The other big question that I had for you, and I do appreciate you translating some of your British-isms for me, on occasion,
Sara Custer
Oh I don’t have that many. I don’t have that many.
Erin Hennessy
Gobby. Gobby was the one.
Sara Custer
Gobby.
Erin Hennessy
That’s a good one. Can you define?
Sara Custer
Just mouthing off?
Erin Hennessy
I love it.
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Erin Hennessy
We talked about the parallels, parallels between higher education and the media, which Teresa referenced in her first question, both of these industries are facing existential crises. It feels like we have been facing existential crises in higher ed and the media for decades at this point. But how are you thinking about, and I’m sure this is your least favorite question at cocktail parties and such, but how are you thinking about the future of media, and particularly the future of trade media? You know, you talk about Doug and Scott founding Inside Higher Ed at a very particular moment in time, and really expanding the aperture, I think, of the kind of coverage that higher education got in the trade press. How do you see the industry, media industry, surviving? What do you, what kind of changes do you think need to be made in order for Inside Higher Ed to celebrate its 30th and 40th and 50th anniversaries? No pressure.
Sara Custer
Yeah, no pressure.
Erin Hennessy
No pressure, Sara. None.
Sara Custer
Hopefully, I’ll be here for those. I think that not trying to be all things to all people is probably smart, keeping it to the core of what you do really well. For us, that’s news, and I think we’ve got a good group of people who are writing opinion pieces for us. Our opinion section is really strong. So I think we’ve got really strong foundations. So just kind of keeping it close to what you’re doing really well. The trade sector is slightly different to B to C medias, I’m sure you guys are very aware. I think there’s a strength to that that we’ve already found our niche. We aren’t, you know, we aren’t the Washington Post that’s trying to figure out what their identity is. You know, whenever they’re competing with the New York Times, that’s not what we’re doing. We know exactly what we’re doing, and we know exactly who we’re serving. So I think it’s just leaning into that a little bit more as much as we can, and then seeing how our audience habits are changing.
So I was at an event over the weekend, and I had mentioned, I really want to find what the next audience is, or be able to serve what the next audience is for Inside Higher Ed. And this woman came up to me and was like, Well, who do you think your audience is. And I kind of went through what I’ve got in my head from our most recent reader survey, and she was like, Well, I what I do is I take all of your articles that you’ve got in your weekly news update, and I just put them into ChatGPT, and it just spits out a synopsis for me. So that I can stay up to date with all the things that are you’re covering, but I do not have time to read everything. And that was, like, fascinating for me, because I was like, Wow, great for you. Figuring out a way around that she’s got, like, three small children. She said she like, listens to, like podcasts in the shower, because that’s like, the only time she’s got to, like, catch up on her news. And yeah, that probably is what a lot of like, mid-30s to mid-40s, the upcoming generation of higher education leaders, that’s probably what their life looks like. They’re probably starting young families and trying to figure out balance work and life and all that other stuff. So if there’s a way that we can make that easier for our readers and get to them where they are, then I’m so interested in that.
So that’s, that’s one thing try to, like, keep it tight to the core, and then also thinking about how we can better serve the readers that we do have. So whenever I look at our traffic, traffic that we’ve got coming in from Google, which I call kind of like our one hit wonders fly by night, folks who find us, maybe by accident or happen to come across something, versus the people that come from our daily news updates, our daily newsletter, which are our loyal readers who are always going to be coming back to us, and they’re the ones that wake up with Inside Higher Ed, and it’s interesting to see kind of what those two different groups read and what numbers are. Obviously, the numbers from Google are huge compared to our core audience, but the behavior of that core audience is more interesting to me than the Google audience, because we’ve got them, and so what might we be able to do with them, or how I might we be able to serve them a bit more, and then at the same time we need to diversify our revenue streams? I mean, I think this is definitely something that the media industry just did not accept until it was too late, really.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah
Sara Custer
Inside Higher Ed has historically been reliant on digital ad sales, digital ad revenues. We’ve seen that revenue stream across the media landscape tank in the last few years. So it’s just thinking about, what else can we do? So we’ve got a really vibrant events schedule that we’ve got, that we’re trying is successful so far, so thinking about how we might be able to do more of that, and then also we have our membership, our insider membership offering. So just thinking about what more we can do with that. So right now, that’s the Sandbox that Rachel Toor writes and edits, which is, I’m sure both of you are aware anonymous essays from current and former presidents. It’s going really, really well. People Who Get it, love it. But just thinking, what more can we do with that core group of people, and how we can grow that.
Teresa Parrot
As you know, thinking about that anonymous group and what they talk about and some of what’s top of mind to them, Erin and I also like to talk about what’s top of mind for us. And this morning, we were talking about what was in the executive orders, and we were going to ask you, what are two or three of the topics that you’re thinking about for the coming year? But I think the mix of what’s in the executive orders has to also commingle with what else you’re probably thinking about should be on radar screens for this year. What is that mix for you? What do you think leaders should be paying attention to, what are you hearing in your newsroom that you all are talking about, and what would you want for our listeners to walk away with as some of those topics that need to be on their minds?
Sara Custer
You touched on executive orders, so obviously, federal policy is going to be a huge one. State policy is something that we’re paying very close attention to, which I’m sure your listeners are very well aware of, maybe within their own state, maybe not outside of their state’s borders. But state policy is going to be huge, I think. Following that and just kind of seeing how there might be some similarities there and kind of different approaches that state legislators are taking to interact with their university and higher education systems more than they have previously. I think changes in leadership are going to be interesting to watch, and any sort of what that might signal in terms of the direction of an institution, or, I guess, what it might mean for, again, that state legislator question.
I feel like there’s gonna be a lot of leadership turnover, as there usually is, I mean, that also gets into, you know, the pipeline of university leaders that we’ve got coming up, and how difficult the job is, and how that happens, and how it plays out for them. And then I also think just looking at kind of innovative ways that people are approaching the funding challenges, and also how they can continue to serve the students that they’ve got and more students. So thinking about workforce readiness stuff, three-year degrees is something that is kind of bubbling on in the background that I think is interesting to watch, which also comes with its own kettle of fish in terms of state authorization and then accreditation, and then curriculum reformation and all that fun stuff, lifelong learning…
Teresa Parrot
Shared governance that comes with all of it too, making sure that your faculty are coming along with you.
Sara Custer
Shared governance. Exactly, exactly. Lifelong learning, again, something that’s been bubbling on in the background. I don’t think anyone’s quite got it right, but I think it’s just a no-brainer that it’s got to be. It’s got to be something that institutions are thinking about. I know the demographic cliff is something that we’ve thrown around a lot, and it’s not just a one kind of monolithic thing that’s going to happen to everyone. There’s some nuance there, in terms of steeper falls in different areas of the country, and some places actually seeing some increased growth, but in terms of just being a bit more nimble and flexible in the face of the enormous existential challenges that a lot of institutions are facing, would be something that we’re definitely keeping an eye out for.
Teresa Parrot
Was there anything particular at the federal or the state level that you wanted to put on people’s radar screens?
Sara Custer
Yeah, I mean, DEI obviously is being attacked on a state level in a variety of different states, tenure is being attacked at the state level in a variety of different states. Attached to that is the shared governance question, which a lot of places are starting to call into question. Accreditation we’ve seen in Florida that they’re now forcing all their institutions to change accreditors every 10 years. What a nightmare. There’s just a lot of, I think, because higher education has been thrust center stage on in the culture wars, there’s just a lot more involved in that, in terms of state policymakers just paying a lot more attention to their higher education institutions, either because of an anti-woke, anti-DEI agenda, and not really understanding how their institutions work, or funding pressures that they’re facing on their own, and having to really think about, you know, how they can prioritize that. So I would say tenure, DEI, shared governance, accreditation, and then any sort of, yeah, funding, good or bad, in any direction.
Erin Hennessy
Anything you want to preview from the much-awaited survey of presidents that I know you’ll be presenting at the ACE annual meeting.
Sara Custer
We are crunching the numbers on that right now, so you’re gonna have to wait and see.
Erin Hennessy
I tried. I tried very hard.
Teresa Parrot
I love that report.
Erin Hennessy
To turn the tables, to get the journalists to leak to the PR people.
Teresa Parrot
I love that report.
Sara Custer
Yeah, there’s plenty of juicy stuff in there. So, yeah, wait and see. So I’ll be presenting that at ACE, but then we’ll also be doing our own analysis of it that’ll appear on the website in think mid-Feb we’ll get up.
Erin Hennessy
Can’t wait. I’m so thrilled you brought up the Sandbox and this one, this is where we’re going to take a little bit of personal privilege. Rachel wrote a great issue a couple of weeks ago about the usefulness and how people can best prepare to come visit the Inside Higher Ed offices. Meet with you and the editorial leadership and the reporting team, and it led me to think about the fact that those desk-side visits used to be such a huge part of our scope of work with all of our clients, and when the pandemic hit, everybody sort of pressed pause. The Zoom version of a desk-side visit never was really something that worked terribly well, and so it really allowed us to rethink, when do we bring clients to you and to the other publications that cover the industry. What do you think the best use of those visits are? And if you could just sort of give us your thoughts on who you want to see come through your door. Are there folks that you see maybe too much of, and I mean types of institutions, not individuals, obviously. But are there types of institutions or stories you’re hoping are going to walk through the door in 2025?
Sara Custer
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so we are, by all accounts, pretty desk-bound journalists. So whenever presidents come in, it really is an opportunity for their campuses to kind of come to our offices, and for us to get a different perspective on what’s going on in higher education, and for us to hear a little bit more about their campus that we frankly, wouldn’t be able to get a perspective on unless we picked up the phone and called them and were reporting something about their campus that they may or may not be happy about. So giving an opportunity of time without like a specific agenda, and just giving us some time to spend with a president or a leader, to get to know them personally as well as obviously, we want to hear about any cool stuff that’s happening on their campuses or innovative things that they’re doing. We’d love to have a variety of institutions come in. I mean, in my time that I’ve been here, I do have to say it’s been a real variety. We’ve had big state publics coming through. We’ve had small privates coming through. We’ve had community college systems coming through. I hope that that’s a reflection of just who Inside Higher Ed really is here to serve that we want to hear from everybody. And I think I don’t know if it was that addition of the Sandbox or if it was another one, but Rachel said, Come one, come all, essentially, and that’s totally true. We want to hear from as many people as want to come by our offices and have the time. There have been a few presidents who have come in who have been very early on in their tenure at whatever institution they’re at, so for six months or something. And I would say that those tend to be less fruitful conversations with us, understandably. You’re just starting to get your feet under the desk and come to grips with what the institution is and what your role there is going to be, and what your strategy might be. So I would say, wait a year till you’ve, since you, a year that you’ve been in post, so you can come by and speak with a little bit more confidence and candor. That’s always what we’re looking for. Obviously, you’re going to come in with talking points, beautiful talking points, if they’re coming in with someone from TVP Communications, obviously.
Erin Hennessy
We owe you $20 right there.
Sara Custer
But sometimes, I think that’s what can be frustrating for us. Whenever it’s really difficult to kind of penetrate beyond that, I get it. I totally get it sitting across the table from five journalists, when you’re kind of new and feel a little bit shaky, it’s difficult for you to go off-piste. But I would say that’s what makes it the most interesting for us, and I think what will ultimately make it most interesting for you and your institution, because we get to know you a little bit more and we feel comfortable reaching out to you if we want comment on something, or if a story comes across our desk, it’s like, that doesn’t sound quite right, or that doesn’t sound like the person that came to the office. Let me just follow up on that. Obviously, we follow up on every story, but especially then, if there’s something that’s like, oh, that doesn’t sound quite right, let me just double-check that. So I would say we look for candor, confidence and just a variety of different institutions so that we can hopefully complete the picture as much as you can when you’re sitting at a desk in DC for 80% of your career, your time, as much as we can to get a fuller picture of what’s happening out there.
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Teresa Parrot
I know you talked about hopefully getting back to writing.
Sara Custer
Yeah.
Teresa Parrot
And so I would love to ask about maybe a piece or two that you’ve written, or that your team has brought to you that you’ve edited, that just brings you pride. I know that when we talk to reporters and they have this opportunity to talk about a piece that just shines, they light up. So what is it about the process the story or the people that really stood out to you. And are there any takeaways for our listeners on how to engage with the reporter or how to package a piece that we need to hear from you about what makes it so memorable?
Sara Custer
Yeah, so I’ll talk about ones that I’ve worked on with the Inside Higher Ed team, just because those are the ones that are most front of mind. And like I said, like I walked into a beautiful, wonderful newsroom. I’m so proud of the people that we’ve got and our reporters and how dedicated they are to their beats into the sector. And one thing that so I came in and I was doing one on one interviews with everyone to get to know them and just kind of hear what they think was working, what they don’t think is working. And one thing that kept coming up was we work in silos. We really want to work together. We work too much in silos, so we’ve been trying to allow them to do that a bit more. So I think they work together really well, and they are doing it really well. And that’s from shared bylines. We had one with Liam Knox and Josh Moody out today reporting on elite institutions, court filings about elite institutions who are working together on admissions. The 568 Presidents Group. So they worked together on that, and they worked really well and digging into a lot of those court documents, and then writing the piece. And they loved it. Another one was we have a reporter who is really good at trawling Reddit to try to find things that students are saying, because we want to get the student voice in as much as we can, and I think we do do that really well with our student voice surveys that our student success team run. We also want to be reporting on things that are happening with students outside of our surveys. And as you can imagine, it’s sometimes difficult to get a hold of students or understand what’s going on for them, but they can be very active on social media. Reddit tends to be a pretty fruitful area for one of our reporters to find stories, and she had seen someone mention something about Boston University suspending admissions to PhD programs, and so she mentioned it in our weekly news meeting, and another reporter picked up on is like, oh, yeah, that would be really interesting. And then another reporter ended up writing it for us, and it was one of our top-read articles for the month. So it’s that kind of stuff. I think it’s facilitating those conversations, but then also people just listening to each other. There’s no competition, there’s no pretense. People share story tips and ideas and sources, and they just work really well together. And I’ll mention one more, which is a story from last week which was reporting on the fallout of the LA fires. And I was really proud of that piece, because our reporter managed to speak to folks at Cal Tech, at the LA Community College District, and then at Mount St. Mary’s University. So that, to me, was like a great, I guess, spread of different types of institutions and how they’re dealing with it differently and dealing with completely different student bodies and different faculty bodies, and how they’re all facing similar challenges. And we did something similar in reporting to Helene, and what the impact that Helene had on colleges in Appalachia. And we always get really nice feedback on those of people just saying, Thank you so much for keeping this front and center for your readers and reporting on what we’re dealing with. That kind of service piece, where yes, we can be critical, and yes, we can hold people to account, and we will continue to do that, but then if we’re also able to show different challenges that the sector is facing and remind people what their colleagues are going through, I think that that’s really important thing for us to do.
Teresa Parrot
How do you find those connections? We’re sometimes asked about that. So you mentioned Reddit, and then you mentioned these different institutions that you’re reaching out to. How do you make those connections?
Sara Custer
Google? Find an email address. I mean, if you don’t know someone, usually at this point are, you know, we’ve got our we’ve got our kind of Rolodex of sources that we will call on for commentary on most things, not most things, that we know are smart will get back to us quickly. You asked, how, how to recommend working with the media? Answer our emails in a timely fashion?
Teresa Parrot
Wait wait can you say that one more time, and really, really loud? We say this all of the time and people think that’s too obvious. Can you say that one more time?
Sara Custer
Answer your emails. But also, don’t be afraid. There was a woman who’s a president of a community college, and we were on deadline, and one of our reporters called her at like, 5pm and she was like, worried, like, oh, what does this mean? She just wanted to ignore it because she was worried about it. And then she was like, No, something forced her to, like, pick up the call or to return the email, and it ended up being a great story for her, and we were able to bring her students into the conversation, and I think they even brought it in to a conversation with state legislator. So I would say, don’t, don’t be scared. It’s you guys, I’m sure, probably tell your clients this as well. Lean in, create those relationships. Not saying something is worse than saying something 99% of the time.
Erin Hennessy
And that these folks aren’t out to get you. They’re trying to tell a story. They’re not trying to drive an agenda. You’re absolutely right, though it’s fear and it’s, we tell people all the time the worst thing about engaging with the media and public speaking are that you only get better the more you do it. And so you can’t sit in your office and be angry that somebody else was selected and featured in a story when you aren’t willing to participate.
Sara Custer
Right!
Teresa Parrot
You can be, but there is a solution to that. And it is answer the phone and respond to a journalist.
Erin Hennessy
Participate.
Sara Custer
Yeah, and come visit us, you know? Or come say hello to one of us when we are at events. So one thing I’ll say with the LA fires story, so that came off the back of a president that I had met at an event a few days or a few weeks prior. We had, you know, done the follow-up. Nice to meet you. Great. Let’s stay in touch. Blah, blah, blah. She responded to our first story about LA fires. It was like, thank you so much. It’s been so devastating, whatever. And I was like, Hey, we’re doing a follow-up. Would you like to speak to one of our reporters? She was like, great. I put her in touch with the reporter, and then we interviewed her for the piece. And that was based solely on a relationship, relationship building and having that. And that’s, that’s how a lot of it works. In addition to Googling.
Erin Hennessy
And that, that LA fires piece that you mentioned, we actually talked about at the top of this episode, and what I loved in particular is that you all called out so many community colleges and the impacts there, which so often get overlooked. And we also sort of tied that back to making sure that we’re all continuing to think about western North Carolina, because that recovery is not yet complete, and those institutions are still profoundly impacted.
Sara Custer
Yes.
Erin Hennessy
And it’ll be the same for, well, not the same impact on the physical plant. As you all pointed out, that’ll be the same for the people that run those institutions and the students who attend in LA for a long time, unfortunately,
Sara Custer
Yeah, I think Asheville just now came back to in-person classes just this week. We’re discussing that today, and it’s just you forget about it. You know, I, we are just as much guilty of that as anyone else. The news cycle just kind of moves on from that. But clearly those people’s lives and their careers and their educations are totally, totally impacted by it.
Teresa Parrot
We talk about that here because I live, as a crow flies, about two miles away from the Marshall fires, and it’s three years since our fires, and we’re still impacted. And my community is impacted. Thankfully I haven’t been directly impacted, but I know what that recovery is going to be like for these communities, and it’s so easy for everybody to just move on in their world, but to your point, it’s months later for Asheville. It’s going to be years later for a number of these communities that are impacted, and it’s so easy for everybody else to go on with their lives.
Erin Hennessy
Teresa, you know how when we do media training, we always tell people that there’s one trick, one thing they should take advantage of at the end of an interview?
Teresa Parrot
Yes.
Erin Hennessy
Do you want to do it?
Teresa Parrot
Do I get to do it?
Erin Hennessy
Do it.
Teresa Parrot
Sara, I just want to make sure that we ask you, is there anything that you want for us to know about you?
Sara Custer
Um. Uh.
Erin Hennessy
Not so easy when the shoes on the other foot, aye?
Sara Custer
It’s not, um, I guess just, uh, this isn’t the British invasion. I don’t know if that’s like it. I don’t know if people are worried about that. That might have, like, died down a little bit. But I, and I don’t know how much of a thing that was in the back of people’s minds or free, I may have now planted something that was never there to begin.
Teresa Parrot
I didn’t think it was.
Sara Custer
But I think, I think me arriving from London as well as Will Lewis to The Washington Post and Emma Tucker to The Wall Street Journal. I mean, obviously they have a much bigger profile than I do, but it just kind of seems…
Erin Hennessy
Just for now.
Sara Custer
Just for now. But it did seem like there are a lot of people coming over from London to head big, ginormous, very important media companies, Inside Higher Ed being one of them. But yeah, just to say that I’m really excited to be back. I am learning so much about the US sector, which is fascinating, and I love hearing about what each individual institution is doing and how different they are and how they fit into this tapestry of higher education. And I really like it whenever people are just really honest and comfortable with me, because that’s whenever I feel like I get I get the most out of conversations.
Erin Hennessy
We have both gotten…
Teresa Parrot
Well it has been…
Erin Hennessy
You go.
Teresa Parrot
We both were so excited. Go ahead, Erin.
Erin Hennessy
We have both gotten a lot out of this conversation, and I know our listeners will enjoy it as well, and you’re just so lovely to make time for us.
Sara Custer
Oh well, thank you so much for the invitation. I was honored to receive it in my inbox. I couldn’t wait to say yes!
Teresa Parrot
We have been enjoying, yeah, we have been enjoying seeing you settle into your position and seeing your leadership stance and congratulations.
Sara Custer
Thank you. Thank you.
Erin Hennessy
Well, isn’t she just a ray of sunshine?
Teresa Parrot
She was fantastic. I really, really enjoyed getting to meet her. I had known her by email for years, and you had told me for over a yea, how delightful she was.
Erin Hennessy
Yes, super smart. I can’t imagine. You know, we’ve known Doug and Scott for years and years and years and watched them sort of birth and raise and send this outlet out into the world. And I can’t imagine how challenging it must be to step in and be the second, slash third, however you want to count things, editor-in-chief of Inside Higher Ed. And it’s, it’s got to be a big thing to get your arms around.
Teresa Parrot
I love that she has the perspective of coming from abroad because I think in some ways it’s easier to get your arms around it, because you come from outside, and then you can get your arms around it. I liked that perspective of coming in to see the totality of what Inside Higher Ed was, and I liked how she kind of described that experience, but even just to hear her talk about the enormity of the job and of this moment and of the industry, in both industries, it’s a lot.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, I don’t think she’s skipping out of the office at 5:30 at night and heading home to walk the dog and right? I don’t know, looking for a hobby to pick up. It’s got to be pretty all-consuming and just the number of people she has to meet.
Teresa Parrot
Right? And that’s what she doesn’t have time for writing.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, it was interesting to get her thoughts. I’m sad we didn’t get a leak on the president’s survey.
Teresa Parrot
She also didn’t commit to any specific topics that people should be following. She was more general.
Erin Hennessy
She was
Teresa Parrot
And she followed, I would like to say very closely what we thought people should be following. So I like that. But she didn’t get into any specifics which I thought was interesting, or kind of drill down beyond that 30,000 foot level.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah. And on some level, each one of those topics is going to be vastly different for different kinds of institutions, so digging in too much might be hard, but she’s, I don’t know, feels media trained in the best way, Sara, if you’re listening in the best way.
Teresa Parrot
Although she does need to work on that last answer.
Erin Hennessy
I know.
Teresa Parrot
That, what do you want to make sure that we take away from this. She said it, that’s hard.
Erin Hennessy
It was fun to turn things around on her. Free advice, friends. When they ask you, is there anything we should have asked you at the end of the conversation? Go back to your three key points.
Teresa Parrot
Anything you want us to walk away with, anything we really need to know.
Erin Hennessy
And if they don’t ask, you tell them anyway.
Teresa Parrot
That’s exactly it.
Erin Hennessy
That’s right.
Teresa Parrot
That is it.
Erin Hennessy
Tell em, tell em you told em. Tell em again.
Teresa Parrot
There’s the advice.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, well, this episode has felt like a bit of a roller coaster emotionally, which could be apt for sort of where we are right now.
Teresa Parrot
Exactly.
Erin Hennessy
We’ll be back in a couple weeks?
Teresa Parrot
We’ll be back in a couple of weeks. It’ll be the two of us. We’ll just be talking shop.
Erin Hennessy
Yeah, we’ll see what kind of shop we’ll be talking. If you’re gonna be at the ACE annual meeting, Teresa and I will be in the vicinity.
Teresa Parrot
Yes!
Erin Hennessy
So send us a note. We like coffee.
Teresa Parrot
Love coffee.
Erin Hennessy
I like other beverages as well.
Teresa Parrot
And we always love conversation.
Erin Hennessy
Ugh. Yeah sure, yes, we do. All right, my friend, I’ll talk to you later.
Teresa Parrot
I’ll talk to you very, very soon.
Erin Hennessy
Thanks, everyone.
Teresa Parrot
Thank you for listening. Bye, bye.
Thank you for joining us for this episode. You can find links in the show notes to the topics and articles referenced, as well as a copy of the show’s transcript on the Volt website, voltedu.com. Remember that you can always contact us with feedback questions or guest suggestions at trustedvoices@TVPcommunications.com. Be sure to follow Trusted Voices where you get your podcasts, and we invite you to check out Higher Voltage, another podcast on the Volt network that is hosted by our friend Kevin Tyler. Kevin explores the evolution of higher education that is happening right before our very eyes. Until next time, thanks to Erin Hennessy, DJ Hauschild, Aaron Stern, Nicole Reed and the Volt team for a great episode. And thank you for listening.