Trusted Voices: A Fall Semester of Institutional Resilience

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Teresa Valerio Parrot

Hello and welcome to the Trusted Voices Podcast. I’m Teresa Valerio Parrot, alongside Erin Hennessy, and in each episode, we discuss the latest news and biggest issues facing higher education leaders through a communications lens. For these conversations, we’ll be joined by a guest who will share their own experiences and perspectives.

Erin Hennessy

So here we are back again, much like Slim Shady, we are back again. I don’t know. We can maybe…

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I did not anticipate you to be the one with Slim Shady reference.

Erin Hennessy

Listen, I contain multitudes. Here we are, and we are sitting in this, it feels like the eye of a little news hurricane, considering all of the things that are going on, including multiple hurricanes. We are less than 30 days from a presidential election.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And my birthday!

Erin Hennessy

Yes, and your birthday, and it’s just, it’s feeling like a lot, and it’s hard to remember when it didn’t, but this feels like a lot, a lot.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yes. And It feels like we would not be reflecting ourselves and also the moment, if we didn’t start by talking about the reality of what’s going on in western North Carolina. So it feels like we should start there and just talk for a second about what those institutions are going through, what the people of western North Carolina are going through, and just kind of give a moment of grace and reflection for all of what’s happened since our last episode.

Erin Hennessy

And as we say that, we are also, along with the people of Florida, bracing for Milton, which is expected to hit later this week. And I just happen to have a neighbor and friend and former dog sitter who is enjoying her first semester at University of Central Florida and is in the process of hunkering down for the second time in two weeks to ride out a hurricane in Florida. And fortunately, this one will not follow Helene’s path up to western North Carolina, at least based on its current trajectory. But you’re absolutely right. You and I have spent some time in western North Carolina, both personally and on some campuses, and it is absolutely devastating to look at those pictures and think about what those institutions are grappling with today and next week, and for some of them, for years.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yes, and in our show notes, we have a link to the latest on western North Carolina colleges’ statuses. So this is something that is a Gannett based outlet, and they link to the campuses, and also to the student newspapers and how they are talking about where those campuses are. It was important, I thought, to have a link to how those institutions themselves, and again, also giving a shout out to the student newspapers, how they are talking about the campuses. So go to the show notes to see again how those campuses are using their own words and their resilience in describing what is going to be a long trek back.

Erin Hennessy

Yes, we’ll also have a link to the recent piece, I believe it was in Inside Higher Ed, that also talks about the challenges of getting just basic utilities back.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yes. Just wanted to make sure that we gave some links so that you could hear from the institutions themselves. You could hear how they are working through, what their realities are. That was important for us to give resources and also reflect their realities, because for some of these campuses they’re talking about hopefully coming back soon. Some of them are talking about in the coming days, some in weeks, some talking about hopefully in months, some talking about in the new calendar year, because there’s some devastation there, and we wanted to make sure that we gave time to reflect on their reality and their challenges,

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, and the tail on this is long and it’s multifaceted. My best friend from college is in the process of visiting colleges with her high school senior daughter, and they are in eastern Tennessee, so western North Carolina was an area that they were very much investigating as she looked at colleges, and they visited one, literally, two days before Helene made its way up to western North Carolina, and they have taken it off the list, simply because the roads that have been washed out between Tennessee and western North Carolina make it questionable at best, if they would be able to get her there, and it’s a two and a half hour drive. So this impact is yes on the classrooms and the students in their current semester and faculty and staff, but it could also have a longer tail, certainly for Florida and Georgia and areas in North Carolina as well. That could impact admissions, enrollment, retention, all of those things.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And I would also encourage us not to count those institutions out. I was reading on Threads a number of people who talked about their experiences at Tulane, going back to Katrina, and they were saying what their journeys were like. And they were saying, please do not give up on the institutions that are going to be impacted by numerous storms, and make sure that we don’t forget about the institutions, and that they need people to not forget about them, and they need students to come back, and they need for alumni to donate and for others to donate, and for us to remember them and to continue to look to see what’s going on on their campuses. So don’t forget about them. Let’s not forget about them. Let’s read their stories. Click on their websites. Let’s read their student journalists. And let’s donate. So as we’re thinking about donating to community organizations, to all of the different ways that people are being so generous, let’s remember these institutions of higher learning as well. To the community college level, and the link that we shared about the latest colleges include the community colleges too. So let’s not forget them through the colleges, universities, etc.

Erin Hennessy

And it’s really heartening to see other institutions in North Carolina that weren’t impacted, were not impacted by Helene stepping up to help their neighbor campuses as well, which is one of the things that higher ed does best when we have an opportunity to support other institutions.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Exactly.

Electric Kite ad read

Teresa Valerio Parrot

We were going to talk about the election, so I know you wanted to talk a little bit about who might be voting.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah…I don’t want to talk about the election at all, to be really, really frank, but we’re going to talk about the election. I’m definitely hitting, I don’t know about you, TVP, but I’m definitely hitting a point of fatigue. I just want to vote already. Have results.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

My election, apparently, is going to be mailed to me any day now.

Erin Hennessy

Oh this is one where I am going to vote in person. A: I almost always vote in person because I just, I like it. It feels good. But this is one where I think my mother and my sister and I are all going to go together, take the nephew, but I’m just… knock me out for the next three weeks because I’m ready to be done. But I did want to bring folks attention to a great piece that ran in Politico magazine. I read it this morning. I don’t know exactly what its pub date was, but it was written by Paul Glastris, who, listeners to this podcast probably know, is the editor in chief of the Washington Monthly, which puts out sort of an alternative set of college rankings each fall that really aim not to focus on reputation or prestige or how tough it is to get in, but instead to focus on the institutions that are making the most difference in the lives of their graduates. So sort of the original social mobility ranking is published each year in Washington Monthly. But Paul wrote a piece not about rankings, but about demographics. And it’s fascinating to see Politico Magazine, love them to pieces, discover that there are college graduates who have not attended elite Ivy League, highly selective institutions. So Paul writes a great piece about what could be a new demographic slice that might be targeted by candidates and pollsters. So add this to the soccer moms and Reagan Democrats and double haters. These are regional public college and university graduates.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

What?

Erin Hennessy

Right?

Teresa Valerio Parrot

What a minute, where Tim Walz attended?!

Erin Hennessy

Exactly, and where Tim Walz’s wife, at least got her graduate degree. I’m not sure about undergrad, and where Kamala Harris and her husband also attended, regional publics. So it’s a fascinating…

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Wait wait…where most of America attended?!

Erin Hennessy

How ’bout them apples? It’s a great piece. It’s really interesting for higher ed folks, we will be nodding our heads again. They are figuring out things that we have known for a long time. But the conversation focuses not necessarily on which party is identifying and engaging these voters, but the potential that both parties could have to engage and motivate these voters. And I thought this paragraph was fantastic. “Nothing is more powerful in politics than a large group of voters who have reason to feel both proud and disrespected and who are, quote, “seen for the first time.” Think Reagan Democrats in the 1980s, unmarried women in the 2000s, or double haters in this election cycle. They are voters who might not consciously think of themselves as a group, but have characteristics and affinities that once identified help political professionals see the electorate and the data in new and useful ways.” And so it goes on to talk about state college voters. They grew up without a lot of wealth, went to the most cost effective college they could find that was near their home, worked hard at their classes as well as the outside jobs they needed to cover tuition, and started careers within commuting distance from where they grew up. Now, they are stable contributing members or leaders of their local communities, of which they take great pride, but they see people on TV and perhaps deal with at work who went to, quote, “better schools” and who think they’re smarter and live in cooler places, when really they are just snobs.

It’s a great piece. I really recommend it to everybody. It’s, you know, I don’t post on Facebook much anymore, but this is one that I think I might share there, in addition to LinkedIn, because it really does change the conversation a bit, or give candidates the opportunity to change the conversation a bit by tapping into this and really diving down into the data. We hear it all the time, of college graduate women, white college graduate men. Really bust that demographic down a little bit more and talk about regional state college graduate voters. So that is my contribution to the election conversation. And now I don’t ever want to talk about it again.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I still have to talk about it, so we’re gonna talk about it for a couple more minutes.

Erin Hennessy

Alright, fine.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

So I might blow your mind. I’ve never voted in person.

Erin Hennessy

Really?

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I’ve never voted in person. I’m in Colorado. We vote by mail, although, when I was in college, I used to work at a polling location, but I’ve only voted by mail.

Erin Hennessy

Interesting.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yeah, isn’t that fascinating? But I we get these voting books in the mail. Do you all get those?

Erin Hennessy

Like, sample ballot and the like…?

Teresa Valerio Parrot

We don’t get a sample ballot because y’all get…

Erin Hennessy

But like the League of Women Voters kind of thing with the here’s all your ballot measures and all that stuff?

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Right. We get those from the state. The state puts together the information booklets. And so I get those, and I write notes to myself, and I research all of the different initiatives. And so I sit down with my mail-in ballot, and I go through one by one all of those. I handle it a little bit like a college course, right? Like I do all of my research, take all of my notes in the little booklet. They really should send one per voter, because then Kevin gets my written through booklet and has to figure it out for himself. And really he should just read all of my notes in there. He has to kind of work through all of my notes to figure it out.

Erin Hennessy

Bless his heart.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I know. I know.

Erin Hennessy

No, voting, I still remember very much, going to the Methodist church basement in Haddonfield, New Jersey with my parents and, you know, flipping the lever to close the curtain and turning, this was back in the old days, turning the little wing handles down and pulling the thing. Oh, yeah. Very good.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I’ve seen, I mean, I know what a hanging chad is. I’ve seen this on popular, popular media, but I’ve never actually done this. And I worked in a polling station when I was in college, because they paid you in cash, and also you got donuts in the morning and pizza at night. So I got two meals and cash.

Erin Hennessy

Sure.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

So this was a very prime job for me when I was in college, and it was for those that didn’t get a mail-in ballot, you could then vote in person. So I was a big fan of working for one of these stations, but I never actually have ever voted in person.

Erin Hennessy

Well, the Hennessy-McNulty family will be tripping down to Burrow Hall on October 5 to celebrate your birthday, my mother’s birthday, and the opportunity to pull the lever.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Okay, so I do have some resources and some thoughts on this. I did not pull any media articles. But instead, I did want to point out some resources, and these are from the Poynter Institute, which I am a big fan of. And they’re journalism resources, but I always like to go on their site and see what they have. And they have an online set of resources on how to spot misinformation. I have actually sent some of their resources to my parents. So they do have an online course, and it used to be something that you had to pay for, but now it’s free. So I have had my parents listen to this course. They thought it was pretty engaging and entertaining. And so if you have some people who might also need some help spotting misinformation, there’s a free course that they can attend online, and it’s pretty quick, it’s entertaining, and they might want to also attend this now free course. They also have different spots where you can look at fact checking courses, resources, etc. But as you’re looking at ways to provide resources on our campuses, we have people with information that can help with fact checking as well. So if you have experts who can give information to help with fact checking, you might want to think about sending some details to Poynter, if they can help provide details, facts, figures, etc., that Poynter might use as part of their fact checking information. Just a thought for all of you, because we have those experts, and they also have AI courses and resources that you might want to think about within your own news teams, too. The other thing that I thought was interesting, this is a link. This week, the Chronicle had an interesting piece on “Those Voices on the Podcast? Listen Closely.” There was a piece that said that there are new podcasts that are coming out that actually aren’t people, but are AI voices.

Erin Hennessy

The bots are coming to take our podcasting job, Teresa. That pays us very lucratively, I might add and they’re coming to take our job.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yeah, so I thought that was kind of interesting. There is a new program called NotebookLM, and you can put reports, full-on reports into this program, NotebookLM, and it will create a podcast for you. So a colleague put in the report that we featured on our last podcast, which is the report that Kevin McClure and Jorge Burmicky wrote, into NotebookLM, just on a lark and sent it to me. And here is the podcast that was created based on Kevin and Jorge’s report. So queue it up. Here it is.

Audio Clip by NotebookLM

Male AI: Ever imagine yourself running a whole university? We’re diving into what it takes to be a college president these days. And trust me, it’s not all fancy dinners and giving speeches.

Female AI: It’s a role that’s facing more scrutiny and challenges than ever before.

Male AI: Definitely more than most people realize.

Female AI: Between shifting public opinion, political pressures and the financial realities of higher education. Tough is an understatement.

[Erin Hennessy: I love that the AI says “um.”]

I provided a ton of research for this, including a huge survey of over 700 college presidents. What’s the biggest takeaway for you?

Male AI: It’s actually not about technical skills being thrown out the window. It’s more that interpersonal skills are absolutely critical in this day and age.

Female AI: So like, are we talking about presidents needing to be therapists now? Not quite therapy, but think of it this way, the top three qualities these presidents valued most were trustworthiness, resilience and communication. These aren’t things you’d find on a spreadsheet.

Male AI: You’re really hitting on the emotional intelligence aspect of leadership. It’s not just about crunching numbers anymore.

Female AI: It goes way beyond that, and those three qualities are intertwined. Take trustworthiness, for example. It’s more than just being liked. One president put it perfectly. Faculty hate surprises. You got to be someone people can rely on, especially when things get difficult.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

So we’ll stop it there.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah…

Teresa Valerio Parrot

They actually are pretty good, but I love the annoyance. There’s, like, an Aubrey Plaza kind of sound to one of them. It was actually pretty good, if they could just, like, get the cadence just a little bit better.

Erin Hennessy

But I love that there’s crosstalk, there’s ums and uhs.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And the like in there, it was just a little bit off. And I kind of think they got us better than us. Like, they’re younger. The voices sounded younger, but like, even the annoyance, there was one that had a little bit of annoyance. They had the guy voice kind of right.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, that’s fascinating.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

It was pretty good. And they got it all down in like six and a half minutes. So in the show notes, you can listen that it took us just over an hour. It takes them six minutes, and they kind of did a better job than us.

Erin Hennessy

Incorrect.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

They don’t have an annoying laugh like I do. They… they did it better.

Erin Hennessy

I wouldn’t say annoying. I would say ebullient.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Oh shoot, I didn’t cuss. That was close. That… what was that word again?

Erin Hennessy

Ebullient.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

That should be in the show notes.

Erin Hennessy

We’ll link to a definition which is cheerful and full of energy, or the archaic meaning is boiling or agitated.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

So both of those work, right? Both of those definitions work, yeah.

Erin Hennessy

It’s word wealth. It’s word wealth, my friends. Exactly what you come to this podcast for. Take that, AI bot!

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Right? But I just thought I would share that because, thank you Chronicle for pointing out NotebookLM, but also NotebookLM, you did better than I thought you were gonna do. You didn’t give us six fingers, right? Like you get from AI that creates a photo, but you did pretty well.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, now let’s have them read a mattress ad and see if they can bring in the bucks.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Right?

Erin Hennessy

Fascinating. Well, if this allergy thing develops into a full blown cold before our next episode, you could just have one of the bots co-host.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I can talk with a bot.

Erin Hennessy

Sure.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Maybe, if I can borrow your dog and have NotebookLM, we’re in business,

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, let’s just create an AI bot of me that has an AI bot dog who doesn’t bark during podcast recordings.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I mean, I like dogs, though. So Nora, Nora is safe.

Erin Hennessy

Well, that’s bananas. I don’t know how to feel about that. When I read about it in the Chrons daily subscriber briefing, I think it’s where it surfaced. I thought about it, and I think most people are going to think about it, I hope, as a way to support students with learning differences. Who can, you know, who have dyslexia or other similar challenges in the classroom that they can take text. I’m experiencing this this semester. We’re reading all of this super academic Kant and John Stuart Mill and all this like a really dense theory. One of my students said to me last week, why in an academic paper about ethics, is there a mathematical formula? And I said, my friend, I don’t know. I didn’t read it, so don’t worry about it.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Wait, are you teaching it and you didn’t read it? Ma’am.

Erin Hennessy

I skipped that chunk. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what half those Greek letters are. Come get me, Faculty Director. But taking a piece like that and loading it into something like NotebookLM could be really helpful for a student who is struggling with the content, or is struggling with sort of dense academic work, or faculty members who don’t understand the equation. So I think there’s great potential for good to support our students, but man, oh, man, that’s a whole new thing right there.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I was pleasantly surprised, but also a little creeped out by it. I also thought it was interesting the gender dynamics of it. So listen to the whole six minutes. I thought it was interesting. The female was annoyed. The male kind of takes this leadership role and how it’s presented. Listen to it. I think that, I think there are some interesting sociological elements to kind of break down and to think through. But it was fascinating.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, okay, well while we’re talking about the fine folks at the Chronicle blowing our minds by sharing these things, I did want to point out, and this is sort of a left turn, but not really for anybody who listens to us. There’s a great piece in the Chron this week by Dave Jesse called Ann Cudd’s Disrupted Presidency, and it focuses on the relatively new, she’s in her second year, president at Portland State University. The piece is phenomenal.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

So good.

Erin Hennessy

It is lengthy and thoughtful and balanced and fair. So I hope the Portland State team and President Cudd were pleased with it. But the thing that I really want to surface for folks is, this is what it looks like when a leader is willing to be vulnerable, is willing to open their office, their days, their challenges to a reporter. And this is what it looks like when you do that with a reporter who is smart, thoughtful, fair, and is interested in writing the bigger story, not the today, who’s mad at me today, who’s uncomfortable or unhappy or ticked off, but the bigger, deeper story. And I just want to thank Dave for continuing to do the kind of journalism that he’s done for years at a variety of outlets, but I really want to thank President Cudd and her team for being willing to sort of step into this opportunity and be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Because I have to imagine, there were some moments of real discomfort and a real leap of faith, and this is the kind of stuff that we encourage our clients and our leaders to at least consider in the right moments. And I can’t say enough about this piece. This is one that I’m going to share with people outside of higher ed.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I agree with exactly how you described it on both sides. And he is such a fantastic storyteller. And you and I talk about this all of the time. We’re gushing because it’s worth gushing over in that I have never promised that he will tell an institution’s story in any way other than it will be fair, and that is exactly what we hope for when we say that a reporter will cover something he is so thoughtful and he listens and he gathers information and he does the work, and that is…you all are listening to us, but the two of us are sitting here nodding back and forth with each other, because this is what we hope a story will be, and we hope that the work will become. And the thoughtfulness behind this, and on the president’s side, the willingness to engage and participate, this is such a reflection of how hard this work is, and I love that this comes after we’ve talked about, again for a second time, actually a third time, the third episode, this report of the competencies of the presidency and how hard these jobs are, because this story reflects exactly how hard these jobs are and the kind of humanity it takes, and the hours and…

Erin Hennessy

And the threats…

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And the threats, all of these things…

Erin Hennessy

I mean the fact that she is covered by the plain clothes police officer at public events.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yes, and that you aren’t liked, and that you do it because you have a calling to do it, and that you want to see people succeed, and that you are giving up parts of your life, and that all of the things, right, these are hard jobs, and he covered it so well and with such thoughtfulness, and that she’s doing this job with grace. All of it.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah. The other thing, I agree with everything you’ve just said, but like switching back to my more cynical approach to everything, I don’t think President Cudd would disagree with someone who says it’s kind of six to five and pick ‘em whether or not her presidency ends up being “successful.”

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Agreed. Agreed!

Erin Hennessy

And what a smart strategy move to, I’m not saying she’s cynical or craven or any of the things that I am, but in retrospect, this will look like a very smart move. Because you and I know 1000 times we have read the story about the president whose tenure has ended for any number of reasons, and it is simply the negative piece at the end of their tenure that says they ticked off the faculty, and they ticked off the students. They ticked off the donors. This sheds light on all of the complexities. So now you can’t, if this isn’t a successful tenure for her, you can’t get to the end and just go, well, she ticked off this person, that person, and this person, and so it’s over. You are now going to have to go back and look at the nuance and the challenges and the very real details of what happened in the early years of her presidency, and I hope she’s there for a good long time, because it sounds like she’s the kind of leader who can take on the tough choices that need to be made. But I think this is very smart strategy to lay a foundation now, if this doesn’t end up being the right spot where things change and she needs to depart sooner than planned, she’s laid a great foundation to say, I’m ready to now start looking for my next presidency, because I’ve laid out this path that highlights I’m a principled leader, making hard choices, doesn’t always make people happy, and it really adds some context and nuance to whatever the end of the story might be.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I think it gives context to what the work is and how she has done that work. And I think that’s often what is so hard to make the case, right? How you’ve done it and what it is. And this was a really nice way of capturing that.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah, and she just can’t be turned into a villain now at the end of the, end of the story, because to your point, the work has been described right, the challenge has been laid out.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Right. And kudos for how he has explained the complexity of this role.

Erin Hennessy

100%

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yeah, it’s a beautiful piece, and people should, people should really read this, because it is such a nice reminder of, when you take the time to do the work well as a journalist, what that looks like.

Erin Hennessy

Yeah.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I actually think we end there. I think that is just such a nice way for us to be thinking about the work that we do.

Erin Hennessy

Well, I’ll let you have your Pollyanna moment.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yeah, not even the work that we do, the work that is done in the industry.

Erin Hennessy

You really are just feeling yourself today. That’s great.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

I am. There’s great work that is being done out there, and let’s celebrate that.

Erin Hennessy

Okay.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Okay. On that note, everybody, we will be back in three weeks.

Erin Hennessy

To talk about something.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

We will be back immediately after the election.

Erin Hennessy

We will.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And we will be previewing the American Marketing Association’s Symposium for the Marketing of Higher Education.

Erin Hennessy

Yes, and we will have a fantastic guest for that episode as well, who is…I don’t want to say too much, because if we have to recut the end, if something changes, but we have a great guest coming up who is coming from a sector of the industry that doesn’t get nearly enough attention, and is doing some great work, so we’ll be back.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Yes.

Erin Hennessy

Listen up!

Teresa Valerio Parrot

And don’t forget to vote.

Erin Hennessy

There you go.

Teresa Valerio Parrot

Thank you for joining us for this episode. You can find links in the show notes to the topics and articles referenced, as well as a copy of the show’s transcript on the Volt website, voltedu.com. Remember that you can always contact us with feedback questions or guest suggestions at TrustedVoices@tvpcommunications.com. Be sure to follow Trusted Voices wherever you get your podcasts, and we invite you to check out Higher Voltage, another podcast on the Volt network that is hosted by our great friend Kevin Tyler. Kevin explores the evolution of higher education that is happening right before our very eyes. Until next time, thanks to Erin Hennessy, DJ Hauschild, Aaron Stern, Nicole Reed and the Volt team for a great episode and thank you for listening.